In Sweden, murderers and rapists are celebrated.
The best way to murder someone in Sweden is to do it while you are drunk and preferably driving a car. A few years ago a Hungarian truckdriver made a 180 degree turn on the highway while he was intoxicated killing 5 people because of this. He was sentenced to 4.5 years (if i don’t remember wrong) in prison. In reality that means about 3 years. Just the low sentence is not what makes my blood boil. It’s the fact that this Hungarian truckdriver can (and will?) get compensation from an insurance for the rest of his life because of “loss of income” (translation) if he is seen as unfit to drive a truck in the future. In other words, a life in Sweden is worth about 9 months in jail plus money to the killer. If you want to rape someone better do it before you turn 20. You’ll get a heavily reduced sentence that way. If you do it before 18 you’ll get a slap on the wrist (translation) with a mildly severe voice saying “bad bad bad rapist, don’t do it again“.
Now people want to set Annika Östberg free because it’s so so so cruel to be in prison. She is now transferred to a Swedish prison from California. She helped murder (translation) a policeofficer and a restaurantowner. I personally hope she rot in her cell for the rest of her life.
So i ask the question: Why and how did everyone forget about the victims families?
SvD SvD2 SvD3 SvD4 SvD5 AB DN DN2 DN3 DN4 DN5 DN6
Correction on the Annika case. She was a direct part of the two murders. He planned the murder on the restaurantowner, and without her the owner and the police wouldnt have gotten killed.
What media also forgets to tell us, is that she had already stabbed a man to death in 1972 in her apartment.
So it is clear that she is a coldblooded murdered.
But, the reason behind the sweettalking about her, is because she is a woman. In our society, a woman cant be a criminal, only a victim. Thus you see everything blamed on her boyfriend, she was just there.
Pether
April 8, 2009 at 14:08
Can you prove that crime is less frequent and violent when punishment is more severe? I don’t think so. From pure logic it follows that the benefit for society is greater with shorter punishments. It means a lower total cost and better use of taxpayers money for example in preventing crime instead. If all we want is emotional satisfaction in the form of revenge we are no better today then in the “dark ages”.
Human
April 8, 2009 at 14:11
There’s no research that supports that thesis, it’s a modern myth. An example would be the city of New York, it has a lower crime-rate than Sweden. How is that logical according to you?
Oscar
April 8, 2009 at 19:23
Homicide rate per 100,000 inhabitants in 2006:
NYC: 7.3 (FBI)
Sweden: 3.0 (BRÅ)
Peter
April 9, 2009 at 15:15
To believe in fairytales is a democratic right. I opt for severe punishments to keep criminals off the streets for as long as possible, and in that way to make the world a little safer for the rest of us. You obviously believe in reforming criminals and make them into model citizens. Do you have any statistics to support such assumptions? I do agree with your assumption that few criminals take the possible punishment for their acts into consideration, but don’t you think that has moe to do with their mental set up?
And anyone killing people is really beyond what I would consider humane.
According to your thinking the perfect world would be not to punish criminals. In such a world we law-abiding people would for sure need our own guns for protection. Is that the world you want? Or do you really beleive that anyone taking the life of another person, or for that matter raping another person or similar attacks on other people really only needs to be explained that such acts are wrong?
Sven
April 9, 2009 at 18:38
Check up on the three strikes law!
The statistics clearly confirmes that longer time for violent criminals in prison makes violent crimes less frequent.
He who sleeps cannot commit sin, nor can a criminal incarcerated.
Sara
April 10, 2009 at 05:40
I agree with Human. We don’t have more crimes in Sweden than in USA despite the fact that we have shorter punishments.
You gotta believe that people can change. Also, it’s not economical to lock people up for such long periods of time they have in the states.
Jonas
April 8, 2009 at 14:34
People going on like “bad bad bad” etc are not using their brains. They are full of personal crap that they should deal with to heal and become whole human beings instead of griping at others.
How come we have not read anything about the stabbing in 1972? Somebody out there seems to be Mr know-it-all.
Cedar
April 8, 2009 at 14:54
Jonas: it’s not economical to get killed either you know.
Human: i don’t say that by giving longer sentences that crimerate goes down. What i want is that they never ever come out in the public again. Not even for probations.
worldreviewer
April 8, 2009 at 15:03
Longer prison time does not reduce crime but it stops bad people from being out in the street doing more crime.
The reason Sweden has less crime than USA is not because of shorter prison times! It is because USA has many many more poor people than Sweden. Most people in prison in USA are broke or really poor. If you would use Swedens prison system in USA the country would be one big riot, with people killing each other for money. If you had USA prison times there would be very few dangerous people out in the street. Sad to say, many criminals who come out from prisons (both in Sweden and USA) fall back to their old ways and do more crimes…
Also, the ultimate crime, to kill someone is something that should only be forgiven by the people who directly suffer from that action, not by the government.
That Annika woman is a nasty person, that should sit in prison til the murdered’s family says she is forgiven. And even now, Annika was talking about “Oh, I didnt pull the trigger… bla bla”, when she should stand up for what she did and try to get forgiveness from the family instead. Horrible person. And now she lives in Sweden. Congratulations!
Glad I don’t live there anymore.
Micke
April 8, 2009 at 15:38
the nonesense about poverty causing crime has been dispelled again and again. criminals behavior causes their poverty, not the other way around. if you’ve delt with the poor and the criminal in the US as i have, one thing is clearly evident;
they are usually unintelligent
they have no remorse about their criminal behavior
they have poor impulse control
they have no interest in improving their lives.
whiteknucklecoldturkey
April 9, 2009 at 12:33
So you know more about this then every sociologyprofessor in the world?
Pether
April 9, 2009 at 13:51
World reviewer: I think you should do your homework regarding the Swedish system.
As i se it the american system is built upon some revenge system. probably a remain since the “wild west”. Does it work better than the swedish system. Well, in sweden we haven’t had any massacres at schools or othe workplaces. Compare the crimerate between America and Sweden and the answer speaks for itself.
Davidian
April 8, 2009 at 15:40
Honestly Davidan – the us court are not driven by revenge. They have adopted one thing from the British justice system and that is to be judged by a jury of their peers, unlike in Sweden only judges and politically motivated nämdemen pass judgement. In US courts a person is also deemed innocent until proven guilty, and once proven _beyond a shadow of a doubt_ can judgement be passed. She admitted to have reloaded the gun, and it was not the first person to die by her hand. In Sweden, you’d naturally let her out, again and again, until her resumé of petty and violent crimes becomes as long as “Bajonettmannen” Christer Petterson. Then you’ll give her another Gloria, just like people have given him. It does not make much sense to law abiding citizens who wish to live their lives without fear.
Dabitch
April 8, 2009 at 16:58
shouldn’t have capitalized “gloria”, and I’m exaggerating of course, to make my point.
Dabitch
April 8, 2009 at 17:00
You’re ignorant. Please do explain how the jury-system is a “revenge”-system? The difference is that the swedish system doesn’t care about how the victims feel, while the american system gives them a voice (they do not decide, but their opinions are considered). That’s not revenge, that’s justice.
Neither do I see how the school-massacres has anything to do with the judicial system, care to explain how your head works?
Oscar
April 8, 2009 at 19:28
Davidian, could you point out more exactly what i need to read? Don’t you think people in general are a bit angry that criminals in countries like Sweden get a slap on the wrist?
worldreviewer
April 8, 2009 at 15:59
Shit, why couldn’t they have kept the trash in California. We do not want her here! The campaings from politicians and media to have her transfered only shows what s social dump Sweden has become… Crap!
aeneas
April 8, 2009 at 16:39
Regarding the stabbing in 1974…
http://battleangel.org/2005/05/31/annika-ouml-stberg-deasy-parole-hearing/
She stabbed Donald McKay in 1974 in San Francisco.
Micke
April 8, 2009 at 16:41
US has finally fullfilled what they are bound to fullfill by an international convention signed by both countries.
In Sweden we have about one murder per 100000 citizens. In Texas, with the death penalty and all, the ratio is six times higher.
The number of prisoners is without competition the highest in the western world. About 2,5 million americans are right now in different prisons. Approx 3300 are waiting for execution. How many of them are innocent?
Michael Gajditza
April 8, 2009 at 16:51
That’s a good question.
Dabitch
April 8, 2009 at 17:01
Maybe because of the social situation is far worse, and that the amount of guns on the streets is about a hundred times higher.
There is not much justice in Sweden, rapists and murderers are one step from being celebrated here and you know it.
Oscar
April 8, 2009 at 19:30
Read about the angel:
http://www.samtiden.com/node/256
In Swedish, but the quotes are in English.
From what i read there, it is very clear that she didnt just reload and helped the murders, but she commited them herself.
Pether
April 8, 2009 at 17:31
For once, I agree with you Pether. She’s a murderer, and should stay in prison. Three persons are dead because of her, three fathers and brothers.
Oscar
April 8, 2009 at 19:31
I´m really ashamed of being swedish a day like this, a human life shouldn´t be measured in economic terms, human rights is the right to live, to own ones life,
olof den andre
April 8, 2009 at 22:26
People tend to forget laws are a philosophical concepts. There’s no such thing as murder, it’s a concept made up by “moral” ideas. It’s made up to keep a socitiy up and bearable. Therefore getting punished set by a law has no concept by any natural means. There’s no right way or wrong way, but a way. The one idea that live the longest wins (and even then it might be too late).
Some want to bury the “problem” others want to fix it.
Should it be an eye for an eye, turn your cheek as Jesus or do it the science way?
What Annika really did and thought will be never revealed. She probably not will remember it properly, in a situation like that few poeple will. Has she done her time? Is there any sentense that will give 3 people their lives back? Have the deathsentence had any impact on the amount of murders commited? Why is the word…
Noodle
April 9, 2009 at 02:58
[...] In Sweden, murderers and rapists are celebrated. The best way to murder someone in Sweden is to do it while you are drunk and preferably driving a car. A few years ago [...] [...]
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April 9, 2009 at 03:17
That’s a good question.
lida diyet zayıflama r10seoogle
April 9, 2009 at 11:45
It is my opinion that USA have the criminals it deserves.
USA is a capitalistic state where human values are mostly disregarded. Alas Your criminality!
Annika has served 25 years in USA although she did not pull the trigger. That is in my swedish opinion an inhuman punishment. Even our worst killers dont get such penalties in Sweden!
Rather we try to understand what forces in society provoked our citizens into a criminal situation. By doing so we work with the very causes of criminality in our society thus reducing crminality significantly. You should try that method
As för the case of Annika, You may want to consider Your laws for both weapons as well as for drugs.
Severe and inhuman penalties for drugs in combination with Your societys glorification of weapons and violence are probably what caused the murders in which she was involved.
I would have some understanding for Your extreme position regarding drugs if it was not for the fact that USA is the worlds largest producer of liqour, which is the most physically damaging drug that exist (according to science)
Börje Lundberg
April 9, 2009 at 13:26
The thing is, most evidence points to that she DID pull the trigger.
And yes, we do have such penalties in Sweden.
Remember Malexander?
And also, Annika had murdered another person 10 years before. And she was/is a drug addict and a ex-prostitute.
Pether
April 9, 2009 at 13:53
As for Malexander the guys who committed that crime were professional bankrobbers. Some difference in my opinion.
Börje Lundberg
April 9, 2009 at 20:38
Börje Lundberg. I want you to say to a mother or father in the US whose daughter/son was murdered that US deserves the criminals they have.
You talk about inhuman punishment… what is more inhuman than murdering or help murder someone?
worldreviewer
April 9, 2009 at 14:19
Of course I would not dream of saying that to the victims of a murder !!
However, when we reason about if it is fair to set Annika free I think we should consider not only what she has done to her victims but also what caused her reactions when she committed the murders. From where did she get the idea to cooperate in these murders ?
I believe Your violent culture and Your very special laws för narcotics are the culprits here. Or do You mean that people in USA are genetically different in USA ? Because in Sweden we have – so far – much less cases like this one. Happily.
As for Your second question obviously it is deeply disturbing that You give even firstoffenders severe penalties for minor marijuana offenses. Through such laws You are are creating murderers. Do You not understand that ?
Börje Lundberg
April 9, 2009 at 20:28
Börje:
“From where did she get the idea to cooperate in these murders?”
She was a drugaddict, and she had killed before. She needed money to pay for her addiction, thus SHE came up with the idea to trick the old man and steal his money by saying that they had stolen meat that he could buy cheap.
Instead, she killed the owner. Yes, SHE, killed him. Everything points to this if you have read the protocols and vitnessreports. The old man had 2 friends with him that gave good reports that her boyfriend couldnt have been the shooter.
And the same thing with the third murder. Everything points to that she was also the shooter.
She and her boyfriend had a flat tire, a cop stops to help out. At this time she is out in the woods peeing. When she comes back, she seens the cop and cox talking, the cop turns around, notices that it is a girl, and turns back to cox. She is a girl, youdont speak to them about flat tires. She then picks up the gun from her bag and shoots the cop in the back.
Have you ever wondered why she helped her boyfriend reload the gun? Because he was high as a skyscraper on drugs. While annika didnt test positive for drugs. When her boyfriend got shot, she was reaching for the gun, but was caught before she could do any more harm.
Do you know when the story became to be that she was the victim? When her boyfriend killed himself. Then there were only her voice to be heard, and easy to put the blame on a guy.
She is a 3 times murderer, a drug addict, an ex prostitute and stripper. Doesnt sound like an angel to me.
Pether
April 9, 2009 at 20:58
Seems to me you have a good imagination, Pether, since you know so many things that even a revengeful court was not able to find out ….
You claim she has committed three murders. Well, according to Wikipedia they suspect that she accepted responsibility for the first murder (not 1st degree, really homicide)as she was only 19 and the real perpetrator would have gotten a more severe penalty. But YOU claim that this is a MURDER that she made.
Also she is not sentenced for pulling the trigger but You imagine that she did. And You also imagine a lot more that has not been proven
Alas, when she is proven guilty of homicide then she is guilty of murder, according to You, Although facts point in another direction
But when she is proven only as being supportive in the murder, she is still guilty of murder, You say, because things point in that direction according to Your imagination.
To me it seems You see her as a murderer no matter what the circumstances are. That is not very convincing ….
Further Your idea where she got the inspiration to the murders is also not convincing.
In Sweden in year 2004 there was 37 people murdered by guns. Same year in USA there were 11,344 murders by guns.
Seems to me there must be something in the US society that causes all these murders ? Something we do not have in Sweden. And I think this was the basic cause for Annikas crime, I think so based on the law of probabilities.
I doubt that Annika would have become a criminal at all in Sweden ….
Thus why I say that USA has the criminals that it deserves ….
Maybe Obama will be able to do something about it ?
Börje Lundberg
April 10, 2009 at 17:21
Good Post…
Janitorial Services
April 10, 2009 at 00:58
We dint want Annika back to Sweden, she dosnt deserve that… She could stay in prison for lifetime.
Anders
April 10, 2009 at 03:31
Why are you lying ?
Anders
the swedish people have always wanted annika to come here and fighted for her all the time when she was in prison in US , but now they dont want take symphati for her anymore , because the clumsy media didnt chech up the facts from the begining about her background , she comitted a crime when she was young and naive,
dont complain such much as you do,
we all make misstakes and some are worse than other
madelen
November 28, 2009 at 19:40
At least, the murderer and the rapist was in Sweden and got some punishments.
I am from Nepal. Here if you kill someone, the Prime Minister protects you.
The Prime Minister even openly criticizes the court and threatens to pull the judges out of the court and kill them.
A contempt of court case has been files against the PM. You can read more here: http://www.ekantipur.com/kolnews.php?&nid=188505
And news like this one: http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2009/apr/apr09/news04.php is kinda regular here in Nepal.
What can anyone do if the PM’s cadres go and kill other people under his orders. Our country has turned into Hell.
Ghatozkat
April 10, 2009 at 04:20
“Please do explain how the jury-system is a “revenge”-system?”
Relatives to victims of murder are of course not impartial, they are driven by revenge. If you involve them in the sentencing process you are involving revenge. In Sweden we believe in equal punishment for equal crimes. Since all humans have equal value this means that murderers should not get longer sentences just because some victims have angry relatives standing up for them at hearings and others don’t. Murdering a police officer who had lots of friends should not result in a longer punishment than murdering a hobo living in a cardboard box.
I don’t know enough about the case to know if Annika should have been sentenced for murder or for accessory to murder. But what I know is that she should have gotten the same sentence no matter who she killed or assisted in killing because in the eyes of the justice system all humans should have equal value. People who personally suffered from her crimes should have nothing to do with her release because it introduces bias in the system.
We do care about crimes victims in Sweden, but I guess we care about equality more.
And on the topic of the drunk driver. In Sweden we do not believe in punishing crimes in arbitrary ways. We believe in making the justice system as fair as possible. Again then, this means that people should get the same sentence for the same crime. You do not take away someones disability pay, deprive them of their rights to vote et.c. You give them a punishment, i.e. prison. And thats it.
And yes… Sweden has far less crime than the US. It does not prove that short sentences equal less crime. There are more factors involved. But it does prove that long sentences do not equal less crime, whether you are primarily concerned with “keeping them off the streets” or not.
From what I hear now there are a lot of efforts in different parts of the US to have less people in jail. Laws are rewritten, people are planned to be released. Simply because it is too expensive to keep them in there. If I was an American I’d be worried, not about people getting too short sentences but about how all these people are to be rehabilitated… Prison screws people up. Makes you think it would have been better not to put them there in the first place. And remember that one person die every week in Californian prisons simply because the prisons are overfilled. Were they sentenced to jail or death?
...
April 10, 2009 at 12:22
Börje:
And what did we learn in school?
Is wikipedia the all knowing truth?
Annika said that there was a fight between the murdered and her boyfriend. When she tried to pull them apart. He ‘accidently’ fell on a knife. But the facts say that he died of ->4<- stabbings.
Oops, sorry about that, let me get you up, oops, sorry, dropped you on the knife again, oops, oops.
Yea, very credible…
And who says that she only claimed responcibility because of her boyfriend? Oh, wait, She does.
Here we got lack of credibility again…
Everything pointed to that she had pulled the trigger on the two murders. The story changed after her boyfriend had killed himself. And since only one of them was alive, the ‘innocent because she is a woman’ became activated by the society.
And that is a fact, that women get lower sentences then men.
You need to go back to school and learn about source criticism.
Pether
April 10, 2009 at 17:56
She is only being celebrated by ignorant media, that has lost touch anyway. (and the seem to have woken up already and wondering what the hell they where thinking..)
It’s obviously a bad PR for the government whatever would have happened. (doomed if they did, doomed if they didn’t..)
I think she will rot in the swedish penal system, but with a considerable ease for her mother at 80, who will be able to meet her daughter more frequently.
HR
April 12, 2009 at 09:22
I have lived both in Sweden and the US. Neither is perfect. In the US you lose you democratic right to choose an elected representative because you could have been charged with shoplifting.. In Sweden, you can read for yourself the article above. It will be a sad situation and a day of shame for Sweden if Annika Ostberg goes on to become a celebrity and hits the Swedish talk show circuit.
My 2 cents is that, as a citizen, you are in a contract with society to respect and abide by the laws of where you happen to find yourself. If you break that contract, you give up your prevailing to live free and be respected by those who you harm. To be celebrated? Bonkers!
Aly
April 13, 2009 at 15:17
I will not further discuss whether Annica did or did not committ certain crimes.
The reason is that it is uninteresting.
USA is by all means in my opinion a rotten country on its way down. Its policy against narcotics – which ESPECIALLY include marijuana – is severely inhuman and only related to the establishments need to protects its profits from liqour (USA is the worlds largest manufacturer of liquor. Its little brother England is nr 2)
The antidrug legislation of USA is a severe crime against humanity and the basic cause for more then 50% of all criminality in USA. As this legislation is born out of the need to protect the western alcohol industry – an industry that is purely lethal to the worlds people – I can only condemn it. There are no ethical excuses for it. And it is the basic cause for so many murders just like the one that Annica was involved in.
The people in USA need to do something about their own own establishment and its expropritation of the countrys legislation. It is really decadent!
I welcome Annica back to Sweden. I think here she would never have become a criminal. Also in Sweden the imprisonments from drugs is about 50% of all penalties since Sweden support the american drugpolicies. Accordingly we are importing some of the US criminality here into Sweden and its a shame. However social conditions otherwise are much better and an efficient antidote to crime.
Annica will be alright here …
Börje Lundberg
May 1, 2009 at 01:05
thanks body
sex shop
May 12, 2009 at 09:36
America is full of self-righteous nut-cases and idiots. Just ignore their postings.
Chris
August 3, 2009 at 23:09
I am from Sweden and I got very upset when I see you post this stupid comments about the country i was born in, that Sweden celebrate murderes and rapists.
We do not celebrate any rapists when they get out from prison we hate them as much as you do, everyone hates that type of criminals, and i hate people who abuse their child,sexual abuse them and rape women thats the most discusting crime we have in our nation.
About Ánnikas case we know that her boyfriend hold the gun, even the police said it was like that, so its so ridiculous that some of you say that she is a coldblooded killer who should be in prison for life.
Its a very big diffrence to hold the gun and shoot
someone, than to be at the place the same time and reload the weapon.
And she is a fallen woman who had a lot of drug problems that time, so by that time she was coldblooded , but she has changed a long time ago,
and still have remorse for those two murders she comitt,
lets focus on how she is today 55- year old of age , by that time she was 26 years old and naive
and she was together with a man who was very aggresive and dominant
GOD LUCK ANNIKA,
GOD BLESS YOU,
EVEN THOSE WHO DID WRONG IN THEIR LIFES
madelen
November 28, 2009 at 16:20
u do, everyone hates that type of criminals, and i hate people who abuse their child,sexual abuse them and rape women thats the most discusting crime we have in our nation.
About Ánnikas case we know that her boyfriend hold the gun, even the police said it was like that, so its so ridiculous that some of you say that she is a coldblooded killer who should be in prison for life.
Its a very big diffrence to hold the gun and shoot
someone, than to be at the place the same time and reload the weapon.
And she is a fallen woman who had a lot of drug problems that time, so by that time she was coldblooded , but she has changed a long time ago,
and still have remorse for those two murders she comitt
seks shop
March 8, 2010 at 14:00
Thanks for nice blog.
Office Cleaning Bellevue
March 21, 2010 at 11:08